Yes. I spend maybe half of the year (on average) away from home, traveling with my MacBook. I bought the Vision Pro to use as a portable display, and I’ve been extremely happy with it. I work in it about 8 hours per day whenever I’m away from my home office setup, and quite often even when I’m at home.
Having an enormous virtual screen is not the only benefit, I also feel that the immersion helps my focus. It’s easier to get into the zone than ever before. I remember someone describing the Vision Pro as the equivalent of noise-canceling headphones for the eyes, which is spot on. I suppose I am lucky that I don’t have any problems with the weight of the comfort, except on hot days.
I’ve been an Apple enthusiast since the 1980s, but I can’t even remember the last time I was as excited about an Apple product as I am about the Vision Pro. I hope it will survive, come down in price, and launch in more countries.
I’ve worked in VR for a long time (including visionPro) and my eyesight definitely got worse. The most ironic thing to me is how iPhone has this screen distance warning telling you to move the screen further from your face while Vision Pro is literally an iPhone strapped to your face.
I was told the issue isn’t the physical distance of the screen to your eyes, but the distance of where your eyes are focusing? So in VR if you focus on an object a meter away it shouldn’t strain your eyes as much as a phone screen 10cm away? No idea if this is scientifically proven.
This is exactly my experience. I love my AVP, travel a lot, it’s awesome on the road and I enjoy using it at home as well. The last time I was this excited by a computer was the NeXT. No other device has fostered feelings of awe as the AVP.
Virtual Desktop is the only app which makes Quest 3 usable for work. And it is bad thing because it is available only on Win and Mac. Unfortunately, Linux alternatives' video encoding/postprocessing is inferior. Judging by my WiVRn experience. Hopefully that changes
Quest3 simply don’t have resolution required for the qualitative jump to have displays in VR. when you can have same experience on a regular MacBook display, then better to use MacBook.
If the Vision Pro was balanced on top of the head, it would definitely be easier to sustain for a longer period of time, but the weight is attached to the front. That means you're holding it up with your neck muscles instead of straight down your spine.
It's not a matter of "can" you do it, it's a matter of needing to do it. Do you make a habit of carrying a gallon of water on your head? You probably don't need to. I don't need to either. I certainly don't need to spend $3500 for the privilege of carrying a gallon of water on my head. Doing so is not necessary or beneficial to my life in any way. I could do it if my life depended on it, but it doesn't.
I don't own Apple Vision Pro, but I tested them two times already and I'm amazed by the technology. I honestly think it's the future. We're probably WAY too early yet, and the Vision Pro might fail badly, but it is indeed the future.
I did a special test session in Japan for "productivity" (the guys at the Apple Store were very friendly and agreed to let me install VSCode and Ghostty on the testing laptop. I cloned an open source repository and spent ~20 minutes just coding.
It was FANTASTIC. The Apple Store was full and I could still "black out" the noise and completely immersed myself in the experience.
I'm seriously considering buying a pair now, but I'm just concerned about the under-investment in the sector.
Regardless, I honestly think it's the future, maybe in 10/20 years, but it'll be the norm.
The future is not needing to strap some heavy thing to your face but have a chip directly connected to your brain to serve as an interface for a computer.
UGH! imagine a BCI chip serving advertisements into your brain directly and recording everything from how you breathe to how you fuck to "personalize" said ads.
no, I love technology, but I will never bind a piece of tech directly into my brain. we failed with mobile phones and we WILL definitely fail with BCI chips, ON THE EXACT SAME SPOTS. they will be impressive, sure, but they will also hold us captive past user acquisition period
I said an interface, not a full blown computer. The idea would be to have a standard protocol so you can control the computer of your choice (which could run adless open source software) without having to touch a keyboard, look at a screen or use headphones/speakers.
Obviously we'd have to legislate so that the kind of ad ridden stuff you mention is not allowed but that is a separate problem.
I think it is interesting in a way that it could allow deaf, mute and blind people to communicate more easily to other non disabled people and vice-versa but I fear we might lose progressively more senses (we have already lost many compared to the wildlife surrounding us) and we would progressively all become deaf and mute and reliant on technology.
But I don't see how we can avoid this kind of technology to take over at some point.
does it matter? the moment my brain becomes a computer's peripheral (input and output alike), said computer can read from my brain and infer things I don't want it to infer.
> The idea would be to have a standard protocol so you can control the computer of your choice
good luck doing that without a regulatory push that's tenfold stronger than DMA. we are lucky to not have vendor-locked keyboards and mice.
> I think it is interesting in a way that it could allow deaf, mute and blind people to communicate more easily
...with the same research that has a HUGE potential for law enforcement/employer/adtech corp/Palantir/whoever to forcefully crack my brain open for them? no thanks I'd rather put `contentDescription` and `alt` properties of UI components as well as test the deaf/mute/blind experience rigorously than face BCI
> But I don't see how we can avoid this kind of technology to take over at some point.
so let's delay it for as long as we physically can!
Having your "workstation" with monitors floating around you in space wherever you're sitting or standing with zero cable management. Whether you're at home in the comfy chair, at a treadmill getting your steps in, or at a hotel on a work trip.
Once the resolution and UX gets good enough a lot of people would love to have their entire office setup replaced by a portable wearable with next to zero cable management. Doubly so if that opens up space in your expensive SF apartment.
That's all good in theory, but we're still a long, long away from this being the future, let alone a future that everybody wants.
I’d probably do more development in the meta quest virtual desktop environment if my primary occupation these days wasn’t writing software for the meta quest. It makes it difficult to iterate when you constantly need to flip to a mode where your monitors disappear.
I have one and think it's meh. The display is great, but the lenses are a let down and the FOV is not great for using a (simulated) large monitor.
I only use it when traveling. It's not better than a high quality computer monitor for coding for me, and I'd expect the same to be true for most.
Also a bit meta but... if you ask a question that involves using the AVP in 2026, you're mostly getting answers from a minority of die hards.
Anyone else has probably left theirs sitting around gathering dust for a while now. Last I checked there are actually fewer AVP apps over time, so this isn't exactly a thriving platform.
Hiya. Sorry, but you might not like what I have to say - I still hope that you read it all though.
I doubt that this is the future. Maybe it is for a small number of people on HN, but outside of this site there's no way it's the future.
You're amazed by this because it's the ultimate expression of the luxury of focus. Unfortunately whilst developers and artists get the luxury of focus, most other people don't. Most other people have either responsibilities or duties that require them to be interruptable.
Being interrupted sucks. But for most people it's a fundamental part of their job. IT, HR, Finance, Security/Compliance, Facilities, and so many more. As an example for folks in sales not being interrupted may mean a lost sale. That's typically not acceptable.
So what you value from AVP is a detrimental thing for others.
Worse than that, AVP is a very expensive way of getting that focus. We could buy you a bigger monitor and some quality headphones for less than a quarter of the price.
Right now for five hundred bucks I can buy a 34" curved widescreen monitor with built in webcam, microphone and USB power delivery of 100 watts. Someone can plug their laptop into that and charge it whilst getting a webcam and microphone over that same cable. It's very cool. Throw in some noise cancelling headphones and the total bill is maybe seven hundred bucks.
That's the price target that AVP has to compete with. And it's a moving target - the cost of monitors and noise cancelling headphones will go down as well.
Let's be honest, right now I could buy a headphones/monitor combination for you both at an office desk AND at home, pay for the courier to your house, and still have a sizable chunk of change from the cost of AVP. If you scale this up over the whole of society, the costs of AVP vs a monitor/headphones combination are HUGE and yet the gains are, for most situations, marginal at best.
And I'm only talking about cost here. If IT departments have to start issuing AVP devices, they're going to need to do the fitting - something only Apple currently does. They'll have to keep records of the pads used for you. They'll have to keep records of your optician's prescription, and spares of the lenses issued to you (if needed). An AVP is a very personal device - if yours breaks, we can't just pick one of the shelf and know it will work for you immediately, the padding and lenses ensure that.
Imagine an office with 100 desks. Which is easier - 100 monitors like the ones I described before, or 100 AVP headsets? The monitors allow hotdesking if necessary, they work with any laptop (even visitors). They're fungible. Headphones are a bit more personal, but still fungible in a pinch. An AVP headset is the exact opposite of that.
Oh, and I've just realised that IT teams are going to need to either keep a record of your prescription for the lenses, or have delays in issuing replacements. That prescription is PII. Now we have a whole new legal problem to deal with.
None of these issues are insurmountable, but all of the solutions are extra cost. For an already costly device.
The future isn't AVP. The future is big monitors and headphones. Because that future is already here, and its logistics and costs are simple and manageable.
I really am sorry to be the one to tell you this. I know you value the luxury of focus. I hope that, if anything, this comment allows you to enjoy and appreciate that luxury more in the future.
Different products can target different segments of the market. The question is just whether this one is large enough to support something like the AVP
Absolutely. I was, if anything, trying to caution against assuming that the segment the poster was in was the whole of the market.
(Personally I think that the AVP market is too small for the modern Apple to care about, and I don't see similar products from competitors ever having the hype.)
The project has not been scraped or scrapped. Any outlet that reported that walked it back. It’s reportedly put on hold while they work on the glasses. Its fate might ultimately end up all the same.
I own a AVP and it’s super niche. Can’t blame Apple for putting their attention on the more wearable glasses form factor.
Also, in the year that I’ve owned my AVP I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve been in full VR/immersive. And I use it everyday.
It is obviously walked waaaayyy back from the original plans, and any hype is well and truly dead. AR/VR in general are a tech dead end that sounds cool to some sci-fi enthusiasts and has some niche entertainment applications, but that's inevitably it, every time it rears its head.
For every comment like this there's 5 from actual users who enjoy it. I know multiple people who tried it in store and want it but don't have the money. It's a product for pro developers with money to spare who will create the initial ecosystem for future casual users.
I think the comments are a bit negative in this thread, however, Newton has nothing to do with Apple now. Or the last decade. Or the last 20 years. It's touching on 30+ years post launch now. Pointing at an "early idea" from 1993, is more the exception to the rule.
Products such as the ipod and then the iphone, were as the parent poster describes. Both ipod like devices, and the iphone were successors to other devices already on the market. It was how they were presented, packaged, and tailored that made them special and unique. Yet the launch of these devices are also in the range of two decades ago.
In the tech world, a few years is a long time let alone 20 or 30 years.
I'd say Apple is barely innovative now, and further, their 'early ideas' are long, long, long gone.
This is why it's such a shame that their products aren't as polished as they used to be. They still have a very strong capacity to do this, and I wish they would. It's a great market, and it's what a lot of people want. Take what's already on the market, as Jobs did with the iphone, or the ipod, and make it ... well, very nice to use.
Yet they seem to be stumbling here a bit, which is a shame.
> I don't think people want to live in a fake world.
yeah that's why escapist hobbies , movies & video games do so poorly.
it's not even 'another world' , it's just a slightly different kind of screen, one that you wear. You get to use it for what you want -- maybe escapism is that thing -- but we'd never say that some beancounter working on an excel sheet is living in a fake world (although you should say that wrt a few of them..)
There is a huge difference though, and I say that as someone who started his career as a VR dev.
Unless you life fully alone, there is definitely a different level of vulnerability and isolation in effectively blindfolding yourself that is very hard to ignore. Even after months working daily using these devices, it still felt awkward to sink into one in an open plan office. I can't imagine doing it in a living room while your family is around, or near roommates, or a plane.
>> Unless you life fully alone, there is definitely a different level of vulnerability and isolation in effectively blindfolding yourself that is very hard to ignore. Even after months working daily using these devices, it still felt awkward to sink into one in an open plan office. I can't imagine doing it in a living room while your family is around, or near roommates, or a plane.
Tonnes of people live alone. A huge normal of people now work from home. If you're using it as a monitor to work like suggested in the post you're not going to be doing that around family/roommates anyway even on a laptop. You're going to be in a room by yourself.
I’ve never met anyone in real life who enjoys a screen strapped to their face. No one I know ever talks about VR headsets as anything other than a novelty thing you do at the mall.
The only place I’ve ever seen anyone say positive things about VR is online.
I may be proven wrong but I’m convinced it’s a small minority who care about VR headsets, and a good portion of them seem to be the terminally online.
We will need some time to iterate on the form factor and user experience but it is hard to imagine a portable AR computer isn't the direction we're heading. While I truly appreciate the value of unplugging and doing things manually, it's hard to deny the utility of environmentally aware computation meshing with virtual work environments.
Arguably a true AR experience brings us MORE into the real world as the need to be rooted to a desk and cubicle is lessened and we're brought closer to product/client/stakeholder without sacrificing digital connectivity.
I think of the AVP like Steve Jobs once described: headphones for video [0]
I use it a few hours a day, a few times a week exclusively as a virtual display for my macbook.
Being able to put a huge virtual monitor anywhere is the killer feature and I don't tend to use it for anything else. It's indispensable on flights where laptop lids can't even fully open.
Apple got the interactions just about perfect for AR window management, etc.
Of course the main drawbacks are the weight, size, and overall embarrassment from having a giant face computer strapped to your head.
I don't find it very comfortable for more than a couple hours at time, at least with the solo knit band + the belkin head strap. I'd like to get a dual knit band at some point.
But when this sort of hardware gets miniaturized I think many people will prefer it to hunching over a laptop screen. Just like headphones, wearing glasses while typing at a black screen could signal "Do not disturb, I'm working here"
You're right, and it's also why this device is such a non sequitur for Apple. Almost all of their successful products are trendsetting and cool (iPhone, mac, airpods), this is one causes embarrassment and I just don't think it's fixable.
As I remember, and supported by the article quoted below, AirPods were ridiculed quite a bit when first launched.
>Of all the widely ridiculed tech products, Apple’s AirPods have experienced an extraordinary turnaround. Back in 2016, they were roundly mocked by the tech industry. Tiny wireless earbuds? It seemed like a recipe for disaster – streets would be littered with these lost headphones, which would clutter up city pavements like discarded gloves and babies’ socks." – https://www.theguardian.com/technology/shortcuts/2019/feb/10...
I'll work for 4+ hours straight in my Vision Pro when I'm on a plane or train, but when I'm in a less cramped place I'd rather just use a normal screen
If anything I think the Vision Pro is more discreet on a plane! No big bright screen to annoy or distract other passengers with, plus I can keep my laptop nearly clamshelled on my lap while I work without having to use the tray table
I bought one a few months ago and ended up returning it without the 2 week return window.
Actual work is a non-starter, since screen mirroring inside the VP requires the laptop be logged into iCloud, and the same iCloud account… both of which my company does not allow.
On my personal laptop, I tried it for about 10 minutes and didn’t see the point. It felt like technology for technology’s sake and wasn’t adding anything truly meaningful to the experience. The buggy window manager and bulk of the headset would require it add a lot of value to make it worth it.
While it could be my eyes, I also didn’t find it all that clear. Some things seemed tacky sharp, while other things looked blurry. This really made me uncomfortable.
I do 4 hours a day minimum. Typically the first part of my day where I tend to have no meetings and can wear it uninterrupted. I’m sure I can get the virtual persona working in Meet and Zoom but I don’t want to creep anyone out.
I’m in Ultrawide at 4k via a MBP or a Mac Mini. Wireless keyboard and wireless mouse. Typically multiple Ghostty windows open, an IDE, and a web browser with a bunch of tabs.
If I have a podcast, YouTube or music playing in the background I do so via the AVP directly via the native app.
Though I like virtual environments I don’t use them much. The amazing pass through (I have a Quest 3 and it’s not even remotely comparable) allows me to feel like I’m still IRL and be aware of my surroundings. And to see and interact with my wife who’s also remote if she happens to pass by. This need to touch grass is the same reason I typically don’t wear AirPods while in them. You can really get sucked in with virtual environments and AirPods on.
No eye strain issues. Have had 20/20 my entire life and a year in still 20/20. We’ll see. It does get a little sweaty/heavy. I have the Apple double knit and the CM Global or whatever it’s called.
I do have a decent office monitor setup with a 43” OLED and LG Dual-ups. I don’t use it much since getting the AVP as I like moving around the house.
I use it a few times a week for about that long, almost exclusively as a virtual display for my MacBook. I bought it mostly because I travel for work, and when I'm stuck in a hotel and want to work I wanted something similar to my big screens at home. It's also nice to be able to kick back and watch big screen movies or TV on travel too. Long usage is fine for me - with the inserts I have my computer glasses prescription so things look good.
I'm not, but is it yet possible to use the Vision Pro as a window manager for macOS? I'd totally get one if it were possible to lay out ordinary macOS windows in space rather than being confined to the simulation of a single rectangular screen.
On macOS, it is ultimately the app developer who is responsible for persisting and using state for windows, such as size and position. Think several terminal sessions - the terminal app needs to be the one to determine if it is representing the same 'session' as before after a restart.
If you are talking about remote display in a 3D space, the application would need to understand how to track and reopen a window in a particular location, and also there would need to be policy on how say a resize on the Vision Pro relates to the native window size once the Vision Pro is turned off.
This puts a lot of responsibility in the app developer's hands, where it is most likely not going to be accepted. So I would expect the experience to be sub-par.
There could be interesting workarounds for full-screen windows, since there are already the concepts of multiple heterogenous displays and display resolution changes on macOS. So you might have a screen, but the 'full screen' button is replaced by one which breaks the window out. The challenge would be making these persistent across connections to the Mac in a way that apps work well by default without picking up odd heuristics.
Yeah this seems like an obvious thing that would make it a lot more useful. Sad that Apple is barely scratching the surface of what’s possible, and it’s too closed for third-party developers to attempt to do anything like that.
At least for now, no, it is not possible. I agree that what you describe is how it ought to work in an ideal world, but it would probably require some serious rethinking of macOS UI/UX in order to make it work. For instance, it is not obvious what’s the best way to transfer the dock and the menu bar to a screen-less environment.
A hybrid solution I would love to see would be to have the current virtual screen, but with the option of dragging individual windows out of the screen.
I am spending about three hours a day using my AVP.
Not getting headaches or anything like that.
I don’t have a suitable MacBook or Mac mini so no virtual display.
For development work, I use webterm (webified ghostty) via Safari to connect to servers. Then it is emacs all the way.
It’s a real treat and I can use it anywhere.
I'm also curious. I bought the cheap alternative: XReal One Pro and… it is kind of as expected. It is a cheap alternative. Don't expect to use it for coding for several hours a day, in spite of what people keep saying. The optics are not up to it: there are imperfections in the lenses resulting in blurry areas of the screen, very visible as you move your head around.
They are great for watching video, make for a fantastic travel accessory, and one can use them for coding in a pinch, but I honestly couldn't find a good reason to, when I have a perfectly good MacBook Pro screen right in front of me.
I would definitely pay more for glasses that would allow me to have a better virtual computer display. Perhaps not $3500, but $2000? The main reason why I didn't even consider Apple Vision Pro is because of its humongous size, weight and complexity — I don't want another computer with another (locked down) OS requiring updates and maintenance. I want things that do not require anything of me. This is why XReal glasses are so nice: they are just a display. No battery, no OS, no maintenance.
EDIT: Just to clarify, I am very happy with the Xreal One Pro purchase. They provide excellent value. They are light, they are small, I can toss them in a bag to have a private display whenever I need. They are fantastic for travel and overall provide a great value. I would highly recommend them. Just don't expect them to be a better screen than your laptop screen for coding.
Fellow Xreal One Pro owner here. I agree 100%. The One Pros do make for a fantastic travel accessory but when it comes to coding (or reading text in general) for longer periods of time, my eyes usually start hurting after 2-3 hours because text is not 100% sharp and there's a slight blurriness / Moiré effect. (Which is a real bummer because, posture-wise, wearing the glasses puts a lot less strain on my neck than looking at a screen.)
That being said, there have been quite a few reports on Reddit lately from people that do use the glasses for coding all day every day. At the same time, my impression is that there have been fewer complaints about text blurriness than right after the One Pro got released. So I've started suspecting that Xreal might have fixed something about the hardware in recent batches. This is all very anecdotal, though. Maybe the hardware is the same and it's just my eyes.
Either way, I'm excited about future models with higher resolution. As many other people here in the thread said: This is definitely the future.
The blurry areas are 100% optics. I can turn the glasses OFF and look through them and see some areas waving. Not something software can fix.
But overall, agreed. I am looking forward to future models from Xreal. I especially enjoy the fact that they don't pretend to push a whole computer, which I don't want. They generally demand much less of me than most products do. I am tired of products dictating what I can or cannot do.
I've been using the XReal One Pros for coding work for a few months now, and have had a great experience.
For me, the ergonomic benefits are the selling point, not the display quality. Not having to sit hunched over a laptop screen for several hours means I can work almost anywhere. Sometimes I'll use it in a cafe. Other times I just lie down in bed. I also make use of speech to text, so I just need to be able to press a hotkey and reach the track pad.
On the topic of display quality, it's important to use Better display to upscale the output to the XReals to high DPI - that gives noticeably better quality when it's downscaled to the (lower) native resolution of the XReals.
My problem was not the resolution, I could live with that. The problem is with optics: some areas of the screen are blurry. Depending on the particular unit you get (I had mine replaced once), the blurry areas are in different places. You might get a spot in the middle, or slightly to the side. If you fix your virtual display in place and move your head around, the blurriness will move across your virtual screen.
As I said, I had my glasses replaced because I thought I got a faulty unit, but the next one just had the blurry spots in different places. Then on a trip to Japan I visited several stores that had them on display and checked the display units — they all have the same problem.
I am not sure why, but not everyone is bothered by this. Perhaps some people don't care, or have had poor eyesight all along so they never saw the screen clearly. But for me there is a huge difference between seeing everything that's in front of me clearly and seeing blurry patches on my screen.
Not using an HMD regularly anymore but I'd like to ask other current/former XR devs- have you noticed any issues with your eyes/neck that you suspect could be tied to extensive time in-headset?
I am currently in physical therapy for some head/neck problems and I am realizing how much I had trained myself to _not_ use my peripheral vision. If I look at something, I turn my head so it's in the "sweet spot" of my vision rather than moving my eyes. I imagine this would only get worse with extended AVP usage due to the heavy use of eye tracking for control.
I hope they can figure out a cheaper and less bulky option. It's pretty cool to unlock the ability to have a screen and apps popping up in the real space without the constraint of a screen.
I would not pay all that money to have something on that is that bulky and get annoying after a couple of hours
A relative is an ophtalmologist and she told me that when working on a screen we should at least follow the basic 20rule of pausing every 20minutes to look and focus 20feet away for at least 20 seconds to avoid having dry eyes and eye strain. Even on a regular screen I am usually so focused in my task I don't do that unless I am interrupted by someone and/or set an alarm. I imagine it would be even more difficult with a Vision Pro as you'd have to unstrap the thing from your head.
I am no doctor, but as you said, you need to release the strain in your eyes by looking away. I suppose that is something you can do with this class of devices as each eye has their own screen. This said, I have never used any type of VR headset.
I was a heavy quest user but I think it ruined my eyes a bit and I needed glasses after having 20 20. Could be standard aging but the correlation was very strong
I bought the device 5 days ago! So far I like it. There are a few flaws (the most annoying being the glare visible when showing high contrast things, e.g. a movie on a dark background, and the text not being crisp for coding). I see myself working 4h+ a day on it though, yes, but it’s early to tell.
So I was, for about a month. But I had to give it up due to, mainly, compatibility with MAM requirements for work and app quality. It’s so infuriating to me how good this hardware is yet how equally underinvested it is.
I do enjoy it when I’m in a work type that is well supported.
I would love deeper integration with macOS beyond just screen sharing too. Or alternatively a broader selection of native equivalent apps.
There also seems to be an odd standoff between Apple and the streaming apps, eg no native YouTube, Netflix, Spotify, etc. Not that it impacts work, but it impacts consumer adoption.
I’m very curious how this new era of Apple will respond…
> There also seems to be an odd standoff between Apple and the streaming apps, eg no native YouTube, Netflix, Spotify, etc
Apple made the bed when they openly were hostile to the developers. There's a reason why every platform courts the developers (Remember MS's "developers developers developers").
Apple could get away from being a jerk because the devices were attractive, and the distribution it offered was stellar. But it isnt the device that makes the platform successful, but the developers. And YouTube, Netflix, Spotify and the likes know this.
So when AVP came along, for the first time, the power dynamics shifted. They didnt have to rush to the platform. Why should all these companies bend over backwards to make Apple's device a successful. And if they do the work, they'll be even more beholden to Apple's whims.
So they decided to sit out. And cue the fall out.
AVP hardwar is brilliant, but Apple overplayed its hand.
There’s a native YouTube app. And I don’t find myself missing the others. But besides the background noise from YouTube and Apple Music/Podcasts I don’t really consume media in mine. It’s a work tool.
>> There also seems to be an odd standoff between Apple and the streaming apps, eg no native YouTube, Netflix, Spotify, etc.
> Apple made the bed when they openly were hostile to the developers. There's a reason why every platform courts the developers (Remember MS's "developers developers developers").
This is about relationships between different big corporations who are all platform owners and competitors. Apple was never hostile to regular developers. Apple got from the beginning that app ecosystem and therefore devs is a must.
And in any case, AVP can't compete with iPhone, no one expected it at that price, and so developing apps for AVP would be a waste of time.
I don't think that's the case at least with video streaming. For example, Netflix refusing to integrate with the Apple TV app on any platform because they don't want to compete with other services (because they don't have the content to compete anymore).
Software development is expensive. Like eye-wateringly expensive. A team of developers, product, designers, testers on a new app costs a big amount of money so its a gamble each time.
Without a large audience, spending money on porting to AVP is either money down the drain or a bet on a large audience coming along soon.
The ones that stick tend to solve one narrow problem really well rather than trying to be a platform. I'd look for tools with a clear opinion on workflow.
Sad thing is, the current hardware would be perfectly fine if Apple committed themselves on the software side at the level Valve does for the Steam Frame.
Valve hasn't committed to making a mixed reality computing platform, and Apple hasn't come out with a gaming VR headset. Neither company wants to directly compete.
Apparently Apple can't commit to making mixed reality either. If they're going to sell an inside-out headset, they should at least support the software people buy for it.
The "WebXR + iPad apps" library is very clearly a joke to most customers, especially at the price point Apple demands.
So this is something I've been wondering. How much does the extra ~$3k of functionality on the Vision Pro contribute to pure coding workflows, versus one of the many sub-$1k "virtual TV in a pair of glasses" products?
I like having control over font hinting and aliasing and stuff, so I really prefer the latter.
I found the AVP fun at first, but then after a few days it started to get more and more annoying- whereas the Vitures were a bit annoying at first, but then just became amazing after my eyes/brain got used to them. Almost overnight.
Yes. I spend maybe half of the year (on average) away from home, traveling with my MacBook. I bought the Vision Pro to use as a portable display, and I’ve been extremely happy with it. I work in it about 8 hours per day whenever I’m away from my home office setup, and quite often even when I’m at home.
Having an enormous virtual screen is not the only benefit, I also feel that the immersion helps my focus. It’s easier to get into the zone than ever before. I remember someone describing the Vision Pro as the equivalent of noise-canceling headphones for the eyes, which is spot on. I suppose I am lucky that I don’t have any problems with the weight of the comfort, except on hot days.
I’ve been an Apple enthusiast since the 1980s, but I can’t even remember the last time I was as excited about an Apple product as I am about the Vision Pro. I hope it will survive, come down in price, and launch in more countries.
How is yor eyesight? Did it change?
I’ve worked in VR for a long time (including visionPro) and my eyesight definitely got worse. The most ironic thing to me is how iPhone has this screen distance warning telling you to move the screen further from your face while Vision Pro is literally an iPhone strapped to your face.
I was told the issue isn’t the physical distance of the screen to your eyes, but the distance of where your eyes are focusing? So in VR if you focus on an object a meter away it shouldn’t strain your eyes as much as a phone screen 10cm away? No idea if this is scientifically proven.
Same question. I have tried it a few times and weight hasn't been a concern. I am more worried about long-term effects on the eyes.
This is exactly my experience. I love my AVP, travel a lot, it’s awesome on the road and I enjoy using it at home as well. The last time I was this excited by a computer was the NeXT. No other device has fostered feelings of awe as the AVP.
Have you tried a Quest 3 for similar purposes? Curious how they compare.
I've tried and it's okay with Virtual desktop but the resolution is like on the uncanny line of fine and not good enough.
The quest being much lighter makes it nice though (but you should buy a third party headstrap that doesn't suck)
Virtual Desktop is the only app which makes Quest 3 usable for work. And it is bad thing because it is available only on Win and Mac. Unfortunately, Linux alternatives' video encoding/postprocessing is inferior. Judging by my WiVRn experience. Hopefully that changes
Quest3 simply don’t have resolution required for the qualitative jump to have displays in VR. when you can have same experience on a regular MacBook display, then better to use MacBook.
Can't imagine how strong your neck must be. For me, the weight alone is a deal breaker.
Why not have a battery externally, attached with a long cable?
The Vision Pro battery is already external, isn't it? But the device is heavy anyway, I think because of the used materials like glass.
Maybe they should add a helium balloon. Like this guy did with his bag:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fvfvUzy64sw
Not sure how convenient it is when working in an airplane, though. Maybe airplanes could be fitted with elastic straps that pull your VR device up?
Balance presumably.
If __they__ can do it:
https://www.istockphoto.com/nl/foto/indian-little-girls-carr...
If the Vision Pro was balanced on top of the head, it would definitely be easier to sustain for a longer period of time, but the weight is attached to the front. That means you're holding it up with your neck muscles instead of straight down your spine.
It's not a matter of "can" you do it, it's a matter of needing to do it. Do you make a habit of carrying a gallon of water on your head? You probably don't need to. I don't need to either. I certainly don't need to spend $3500 for the privilege of carrying a gallon of water on my head. Doing so is not necessary or beneficial to my life in any way. I could do it if my life depended on it, but it doesn't.
I've not tried one. What are the drawbacks? eye strain? discomfort?
Interesting!
What will you do when your Vision Pro breaks?
Looks like nobody is working on something that can replace it.
Plenty of companies are working on VR/AR. There are awesome options that are already more suitable for work than the Vision Pro is.
I don't own Apple Vision Pro, but I tested them two times already and I'm amazed by the technology. I honestly think it's the future. We're probably WAY too early yet, and the Vision Pro might fail badly, but it is indeed the future.
I did a special test session in Japan for "productivity" (the guys at the Apple Store were very friendly and agreed to let me install VSCode and Ghostty on the testing laptop. I cloned an open source repository and spent ~20 minutes just coding.
It was FANTASTIC. The Apple Store was full and I could still "black out" the noise and completely immersed myself in the experience.
I'm seriously considering buying a pair now, but I'm just concerned about the under-investment in the sector.
Regardless, I honestly think it's the future, maybe in 10/20 years, but it'll be the norm.
The future is not needing to strap some heavy thing to your face but have a chip directly connected to your brain to serve as an interface for a computer.
UGH! imagine a BCI chip serving advertisements into your brain directly and recording everything from how you breathe to how you fuck to "personalize" said ads.
no, I love technology, but I will never bind a piece of tech directly into my brain. we failed with mobile phones and we WILL definitely fail with BCI chips, ON THE EXACT SAME SPOTS. they will be impressive, sure, but they will also hold us captive past user acquisition period
I said an interface, not a full blown computer. The idea would be to have a standard protocol so you can control the computer of your choice (which could run adless open source software) without having to touch a keyboard, look at a screen or use headphones/speakers.
Obviously we'd have to legislate so that the kind of ad ridden stuff you mention is not allowed but that is a separate problem.
I think it is interesting in a way that it could allow deaf, mute and blind people to communicate more easily to other non disabled people and vice-versa but I fear we might lose progressively more senses (we have already lost many compared to the wildlife surrounding us) and we would progressively all become deaf and mute and reliant on technology.
But I don't see how we can avoid this kind of technology to take over at some point.
> I said an interface, not a full blown computer.
does it matter? the moment my brain becomes a computer's peripheral (input and output alike), said computer can read from my brain and infer things I don't want it to infer.
> The idea would be to have a standard protocol so you can control the computer of your choice
good luck doing that without a regulatory push that's tenfold stronger than DMA. we are lucky to not have vendor-locked keyboards and mice.
> I think it is interesting in a way that it could allow deaf, mute and blind people to communicate more easily
...with the same research that has a HUGE potential for law enforcement/employer/adtech corp/Palantir/whoever to forcefully crack my brain open for them? no thanks I'd rather put `contentDescription` and `alt` properties of UI components as well as test the deaf/mute/blind experience rigorously than face BCI
> But I don't see how we can avoid this kind of technology to take over at some point.
so let's delay it for as long as we physically can!
I am not saying I want that, I am saying it will come sooner or later, and will probably be ready before everyone use vision pro or its alternatives.
> good luck doing that without a regulatory push that's tenfold stronger than DMA
The only way this would ever happen: Medicare and Medicaid
If they could require a baseline open standard to make a device eligible for reimbursement, then that could potentially sway the market.
I could spend 20 minutes coding in a headset but there's no way could I spend an hour doing it.
What makes it fantastic and the future? Your comment is just saying it’s great but doesn’t explain why
Having your "workstation" with monitors floating around you in space wherever you're sitting or standing with zero cable management. Whether you're at home in the comfy chair, at a treadmill getting your steps in, or at a hotel on a work trip.
Once the resolution and UX gets good enough a lot of people would love to have their entire office setup replaced by a portable wearable with next to zero cable management. Doubly so if that opens up space in your expensive SF apartment.
That's all good in theory, but we're still a long, long away from this being the future, let alone a future that everybody wants.
I’d probably do more development in the meta quest virtual desktop environment if my primary occupation these days wasn’t writing software for the meta quest. It makes it difficult to iterate when you constantly need to flip to a mode where your monitors disappear.
I have one and think it's meh. The display is great, but the lenses are a let down and the FOV is not great for using a (simulated) large monitor.
I only use it when traveling. It's not better than a high quality computer monitor for coding for me, and I'd expect the same to be true for most.
Also a bit meta but... if you ask a question that involves using the AVP in 2026, you're mostly getting answers from a minority of die hards.
Anyone else has probably left theirs sitting around gathering dust for a while now. Last I checked there are actually fewer AVP apps over time, so this isn't exactly a thriving platform.
Hiya. Sorry, but you might not like what I have to say - I still hope that you read it all though.
I doubt that this is the future. Maybe it is for a small number of people on HN, but outside of this site there's no way it's the future.
You're amazed by this because it's the ultimate expression of the luxury of focus. Unfortunately whilst developers and artists get the luxury of focus, most other people don't. Most other people have either responsibilities or duties that require them to be interruptable.
Being interrupted sucks. But for most people it's a fundamental part of their job. IT, HR, Finance, Security/Compliance, Facilities, and so many more. As an example for folks in sales not being interrupted may mean a lost sale. That's typically not acceptable.
So what you value from AVP is a detrimental thing for others.
Worse than that, AVP is a very expensive way of getting that focus. We could buy you a bigger monitor and some quality headphones for less than a quarter of the price.
Right now for five hundred bucks I can buy a 34" curved widescreen monitor with built in webcam, microphone and USB power delivery of 100 watts. Someone can plug their laptop into that and charge it whilst getting a webcam and microphone over that same cable. It's very cool. Throw in some noise cancelling headphones and the total bill is maybe seven hundred bucks.
That's the price target that AVP has to compete with. And it's a moving target - the cost of monitors and noise cancelling headphones will go down as well.
Let's be honest, right now I could buy a headphones/monitor combination for you both at an office desk AND at home, pay for the courier to your house, and still have a sizable chunk of change from the cost of AVP. If you scale this up over the whole of society, the costs of AVP vs a monitor/headphones combination are HUGE and yet the gains are, for most situations, marginal at best.
And I'm only talking about cost here. If IT departments have to start issuing AVP devices, they're going to need to do the fitting - something only Apple currently does. They'll have to keep records of the pads used for you. They'll have to keep records of your optician's prescription, and spares of the lenses issued to you (if needed). An AVP is a very personal device - if yours breaks, we can't just pick one of the shelf and know it will work for you immediately, the padding and lenses ensure that.
Imagine an office with 100 desks. Which is easier - 100 monitors like the ones I described before, or 100 AVP headsets? The monitors allow hotdesking if necessary, they work with any laptop (even visitors). They're fungible. Headphones are a bit more personal, but still fungible in a pinch. An AVP headset is the exact opposite of that.
Oh, and I've just realised that IT teams are going to need to either keep a record of your prescription for the lenses, or have delays in issuing replacements. That prescription is PII. Now we have a whole new legal problem to deal with.
None of these issues are insurmountable, but all of the solutions are extra cost. For an already costly device.
The future isn't AVP. The future is big monitors and headphones. Because that future is already here, and its logistics and costs are simple and manageable.
I really am sorry to be the one to tell you this. I know you value the luxury of focus. I hope that, if anything, this comment allows you to enjoy and appreciate that luxury more in the future.
Different products can target different segments of the market. The question is just whether this one is large enough to support something like the AVP
Absolutely. I was, if anything, trying to caution against assuming that the segment the poster was in was the whole of the market.
(Personally I think that the AVP market is too small for the modern Apple to care about, and I don't see similar products from competitors ever having the hype.)
Funny you say it's the future when the project was scraped. I don't think people want to live in a fake world.
The project has not been scraped or scrapped. Any outlet that reported that walked it back. It’s reportedly put on hold while they work on the glasses. Its fate might ultimately end up all the same.
I own a AVP and it’s super niche. Can’t blame Apple for putting their attention on the more wearable glasses form factor.
Also, in the year that I’ve owned my AVP I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve been in full VR/immersive. And I use it everyday.
It is obviously walked waaaayyy back from the original plans, and any hype is well and truly dead. AR/VR in general are a tech dead end that sounds cool to some sci-fi enthusiasts and has some niche entertainment applications, but that's inevitably it, every time it rears its head.
For every comment like this there's 5 from actual users who enjoy it. I know multiple people who tried it in store and want it but don't have the money. It's a product for pro developers with money to spare who will create the initial ecosystem for future casual users.
It’s unlike Apple to be too early with something. Usually it’s the competition and they show how it should really be done.
I guess the main problem here is the price point, which will improve over time and with scale.
The Newton team might disagree.
I think the comments are a bit negative in this thread, however, Newton has nothing to do with Apple now. Or the last decade. Or the last 20 years. It's touching on 30+ years post launch now. Pointing at an "early idea" from 1993, is more the exception to the rule.
Products such as the ipod and then the iphone, were as the parent poster describes. Both ipod like devices, and the iphone were successors to other devices already on the market. It was how they were presented, packaged, and tailored that made them special and unique. Yet the launch of these devices are also in the range of two decades ago.
In the tech world, a few years is a long time let alone 20 or 30 years.
I'd say Apple is barely innovative now, and further, their 'early ideas' are long, long, long gone.
This is why it's such a shame that their products aren't as polished as they used to be. They still have a very strong capacity to do this, and I wish they would. It's a great market, and it's what a lot of people want. Take what's already on the market, as Jobs did with the iphone, or the ipod, and make it ... well, very nice to use.
Yet they seem to be stumbling here a bit, which is a shame.
> I don't think people want to live in a fake world.
yeah that's why escapist hobbies , movies & video games do so poorly.
it's not even 'another world' , it's just a slightly different kind of screen, one that you wear. You get to use it for what you want -- maybe escapism is that thing -- but we'd never say that some beancounter working on an excel sheet is living in a fake world (although you should say that wrt a few of them..)
There is a huge difference though, and I say that as someone who started his career as a VR dev.
Unless you life fully alone, there is definitely a different level of vulnerability and isolation in effectively blindfolding yourself that is very hard to ignore. Even after months working daily using these devices, it still felt awkward to sink into one in an open plan office. I can't imagine doing it in a living room while your family is around, or near roommates, or a plane.
>> Unless you life fully alone, there is definitely a different level of vulnerability and isolation in effectively blindfolding yourself that is very hard to ignore. Even after months working daily using these devices, it still felt awkward to sink into one in an open plan office. I can't imagine doing it in a living room while your family is around, or near roommates, or a plane.
Tonnes of people live alone. A huge normal of people now work from home. If you're using it as a monitor to work like suggested in the post you're not going to be doing that around family/roommates anyway even on a laptop. You're going to be in a room by yourself.
I’ve never met anyone in real life who enjoys a screen strapped to their face. No one I know ever talks about VR headsets as anything other than a novelty thing you do at the mall.
The only place I’ve ever seen anyone say positive things about VR is online.
I may be proven wrong but I’m convinced it’s a small minority who care about VR headsets, and a good portion of them seem to be the terminally online.
We will need some time to iterate on the form factor and user experience but it is hard to imagine a portable AR computer isn't the direction we're heading. While I truly appreciate the value of unplugging and doing things manually, it's hard to deny the utility of environmentally aware computation meshing with virtual work environments.
Arguably a true AR experience brings us MORE into the real world as the need to be rooted to a desk and cubicle is lessened and we're brought closer to product/client/stakeholder without sacrificing digital connectivity.
I think of the AVP like Steve Jobs once described: headphones for video [0]
I use it a few hours a day, a few times a week exclusively as a virtual display for my macbook.
Being able to put a huge virtual monitor anywhere is the killer feature and I don't tend to use it for anything else. It's indispensable on flights where laptop lids can't even fully open.
Apple got the interactions just about perfect for AR window management, etc.
Of course the main drawbacks are the weight, size, and overall embarrassment from having a giant face computer strapped to your head.
I don't find it very comfortable for more than a couple hours at time, at least with the solo knit band + the belkin head strap. I'd like to get a dual knit band at some point.
But when this sort of hardware gets miniaturized I think many people will prefer it to hunching over a laptop screen. Just like headphones, wearing glasses while typing at a black screen could signal "Do not disturb, I'm working here"
[0] Steve Jobs on Virtual Reality (D3, 2005) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQECSInWVPY
> overall embarrassment
You're right, and it's also why this device is such a non sequitur for Apple. Almost all of their successful products are trendsetting and cool (iPhone, mac, airpods), this is one causes embarrassment and I just don't think it's fixable.
For privacy, at least it looks better than the alternative, the laptop sock:
https://www.instructables.com/Laptop-Compubody-Sock/
As I remember, and supported by the article quoted below, AirPods were ridiculed quite a bit when first launched.
>Of all the widely ridiculed tech products, Apple’s AirPods have experienced an extraordinary turnaround. Back in 2016, they were roundly mocked by the tech industry. Tiny wireless earbuds? It seemed like a recipe for disaster – streets would be littered with these lost headphones, which would clutter up city pavements like discarded gloves and babies’ socks." – https://www.theguardian.com/technology/shortcuts/2019/feb/10...
Relevant Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/51yazy/this_is_what_...
I'll work for 4+ hours straight in my Vision Pro when I'm on a plane or train, but when I'm in a less cramped place I'd rather just use a normal screen
That’s interesting. I’ve yet to wear it around any other human beings other than my immediate family.
I’m also more than happy breaking it out in my hotel room.
Couldn’t imagine wearing it on a plane or train and would rather use my much more discreet laptop directly.
If anything I think the Vision Pro is more discreet on a plane! No big bright screen to annoy or distract other passengers with, plus I can keep my laptop nearly clamshelled on my lap while I work without having to use the tray table
People definitely notice the person with the unusual things strapped to their face.
They notice, but aren’t inconvenienced (I guess? Don’t own one and haven’t seen one on a plane)
Discrete privacy vs discrete “I don’t like attention” are two different traits.
Why does the opinion of strangers especially anonymous strangers you'll probably never see again matter to you?
I bought one a few months ago and ended up returning it without the 2 week return window.
Actual work is a non-starter, since screen mirroring inside the VP requires the laptop be logged into iCloud, and the same iCloud account… both of which my company does not allow.
On my personal laptop, I tried it for about 10 minutes and didn’t see the point. It felt like technology for technology’s sake and wasn’t adding anything truly meaningful to the experience. The buggy window manager and bulk of the headset would require it add a lot of value to make it worth it.
While it could be my eyes, I also didn’t find it all that clear. Some things seemed tacky sharp, while other things looked blurry. This really made me uncomfortable.
I do 4 hours a day minimum. Typically the first part of my day where I tend to have no meetings and can wear it uninterrupted. I’m sure I can get the virtual persona working in Meet and Zoom but I don’t want to creep anyone out.
I’m in Ultrawide at 4k via a MBP or a Mac Mini. Wireless keyboard and wireless mouse. Typically multiple Ghostty windows open, an IDE, and a web browser with a bunch of tabs.
If I have a podcast, YouTube or music playing in the background I do so via the AVP directly via the native app.
Though I like virtual environments I don’t use them much. The amazing pass through (I have a Quest 3 and it’s not even remotely comparable) allows me to feel like I’m still IRL and be aware of my surroundings. And to see and interact with my wife who’s also remote if she happens to pass by. This need to touch grass is the same reason I typically don’t wear AirPods while in them. You can really get sucked in with virtual environments and AirPods on.
No eye strain issues. Have had 20/20 my entire life and a year in still 20/20. We’ll see. It does get a little sweaty/heavy. I have the Apple double knit and the CM Global or whatever it’s called.
I do have a decent office monitor setup with a 43” OLED and LG Dual-ups. I don’t use it much since getting the AVP as I like moving around the house.
I use it a few times a week for about that long, almost exclusively as a virtual display for my MacBook. I bought it mostly because I travel for work, and when I'm stuck in a hotel and want to work I wanted something similar to my big screens at home. It's also nice to be able to kick back and watch big screen movies or TV on travel too. Long usage is fine for me - with the inserts I have my computer glasses prescription so things look good.
I'm not, but is it yet possible to use the Vision Pro as a window manager for macOS? I'd totally get one if it were possible to lay out ordinary macOS windows in space rather than being confined to the simulation of a single rectangular screen.
No , at least not yet.
On macOS, it is ultimately the app developer who is responsible for persisting and using state for windows, such as size and position. Think several terminal sessions - the terminal app needs to be the one to determine if it is representing the same 'session' as before after a restart.
If you are talking about remote display in a 3D space, the application would need to understand how to track and reopen a window in a particular location, and also there would need to be policy on how say a resize on the Vision Pro relates to the native window size once the Vision Pro is turned off.
This puts a lot of responsibility in the app developer's hands, where it is most likely not going to be accepted. So I would expect the experience to be sub-par.
There could be interesting workarounds for full-screen windows, since there are already the concepts of multiple heterogenous displays and display resolution changes on macOS. So you might have a screen, but the 'full screen' button is replaced by one which breaks the window out. The challenge would be making these persistent across connections to the Mac in a way that apps work well by default without picking up odd heuristics.
Yeah this seems like an obvious thing that would make it a lot more useful. Sad that Apple is barely scratching the surface of what’s possible, and it’s too closed for third-party developers to attempt to do anything like that.
At least for now, no, it is not possible. I agree that what you describe is how it ought to work in an ideal world, but it would probably require some serious rethinking of macOS UI/UX in order to make it work. For instance, it is not obvious what’s the best way to transfer the dock and the menu bar to a screen-less environment.
A hybrid solution I would love to see would be to have the current virtual screen, but with the option of dragging individual windows out of the screen.
I am spending about three hours a day using my AVP. Not getting headaches or anything like that. I don’t have a suitable MacBook or Mac mini so no virtual display. For development work, I use webterm (webified ghostty) via Safari to connect to servers. Then it is emacs all the way. It’s a real treat and I can use it anywhere.
Yes, I work 8+ hours a day and love it. I find it difficult to go back to regular screens.
I'm also curious. I bought the cheap alternative: XReal One Pro and… it is kind of as expected. It is a cheap alternative. Don't expect to use it for coding for several hours a day, in spite of what people keep saying. The optics are not up to it: there are imperfections in the lenses resulting in blurry areas of the screen, very visible as you move your head around.
They are great for watching video, make for a fantastic travel accessory, and one can use them for coding in a pinch, but I honestly couldn't find a good reason to, when I have a perfectly good MacBook Pro screen right in front of me.
I would definitely pay more for glasses that would allow me to have a better virtual computer display. Perhaps not $3500, but $2000? The main reason why I didn't even consider Apple Vision Pro is because of its humongous size, weight and complexity — I don't want another computer with another (locked down) OS requiring updates and maintenance. I want things that do not require anything of me. This is why XReal glasses are so nice: they are just a display. No battery, no OS, no maintenance.
EDIT: Just to clarify, I am very happy with the Xreal One Pro purchase. They provide excellent value. They are light, they are small, I can toss them in a bag to have a private display whenever I need. They are fantastic for travel and overall provide a great value. I would highly recommend them. Just don't expect them to be a better screen than your laptop screen for coding.
Fellow Xreal One Pro owner here. I agree 100%. The One Pros do make for a fantastic travel accessory but when it comes to coding (or reading text in general) for longer periods of time, my eyes usually start hurting after 2-3 hours because text is not 100% sharp and there's a slight blurriness / Moiré effect. (Which is a real bummer because, posture-wise, wearing the glasses puts a lot less strain on my neck than looking at a screen.)
That being said, there have been quite a few reports on Reddit lately from people that do use the glasses for coding all day every day. At the same time, my impression is that there have been fewer complaints about text blurriness than right after the One Pro got released. So I've started suspecting that Xreal might have fixed something about the hardware in recent batches. This is all very anecdotal, though. Maybe the hardware is the same and it's just my eyes.
Either way, I'm excited about future models with higher resolution. As many other people here in the thread said: This is definitely the future.
The blurry areas are 100% optics. I can turn the glasses OFF and look through them and see some areas waving. Not something software can fix.
But overall, agreed. I am looking forward to future models from Xreal. I especially enjoy the fact that they don't pretend to push a whole computer, which I don't want. They generally demand much less of me than most products do. I am tired of products dictating what I can or cannot do.
That's a very interesting comparison thanks. Hard to believe one is 87g and the other is ~800g and there's not much in-between!
I've been using the XReal One Pros for coding work for a few months now, and have had a great experience.
For me, the ergonomic benefits are the selling point, not the display quality. Not having to sit hunched over a laptop screen for several hours means I can work almost anywhere. Sometimes I'll use it in a cafe. Other times I just lie down in bed. I also make use of speech to text, so I just need to be able to press a hotkey and reach the track pad.
On the topic of display quality, it's important to use Better display to upscale the output to the XReals to high DPI - that gives noticeably better quality when it's downscaled to the (lower) native resolution of the XReals.
My problem was not the resolution, I could live with that. The problem is with optics: some areas of the screen are blurry. Depending on the particular unit you get (I had mine replaced once), the blurry areas are in different places. You might get a spot in the middle, or slightly to the side. If you fix your virtual display in place and move your head around, the blurriness will move across your virtual screen.
As I said, I had my glasses replaced because I thought I got a faulty unit, but the next one just had the blurry spots in different places. Then on a trip to Japan I visited several stores that had them on display and checked the display units — they all have the same problem.
I am not sure why, but not everyone is bothered by this. Perhaps some people don't care, or have had poor eyesight all along so they never saw the screen clearly. But for me there is a huge difference between seeing everything that's in front of me clearly and seeing blurry patches on my screen.
> it's important to use Better display to upscale the output to the XReals to high DPI
I got excited for a second but then read Better Display[0] is only available for MacOS? :(
[0]: https://betterdisplay.pro/
I'm curious if anyone is using the competing Samsung Galaxy XR headset with similar display resolution as a monitor replacement also.
Not using an HMD regularly anymore but I'd like to ask other current/former XR devs- have you noticed any issues with your eyes/neck that you suspect could be tied to extensive time in-headset?
I am currently in physical therapy for some head/neck problems and I am realizing how much I had trained myself to _not_ use my peripheral vision. If I look at something, I turn my head so it's in the "sweet spot" of my vision rather than moving my eyes. I imagine this would only get worse with extended AVP usage due to the heavy use of eye tracking for control.
I hope they can figure out a cheaper and less bulky option. It's pretty cool to unlock the ability to have a screen and apps popping up in the real space without the constraint of a screen.
I would not pay all that money to have something on that is that bulky and get annoying after a couple of hours
Are you guys doing 4 hours straight?
A relative is an ophtalmologist and she told me that when working on a screen we should at least follow the basic 20rule of pausing every 20minutes to look and focus 20feet away for at least 20 seconds to avoid having dry eyes and eye strain. Even on a regular screen I am usually so focused in my task I don't do that unless I am interrupted by someone and/or set an alarm. I imagine it would be even more difficult with a Vision Pro as you'd have to unstrap the thing from your head.
I am no doctor, but as you said, you need to release the strain in your eyes by looking away. I suppose that is something you can do with this class of devices as each eye has their own screen. This said, I have never used any type of VR headset.
I was a heavy quest user but I think it ruined my eyes a bit and I needed glasses after having 20 20. Could be standard aging but the correlation was very strong
I bought the device 5 days ago! So far I like it. There are a few flaws (the most annoying being the glare visible when showing high contrast things, e.g. a movie on a dark background, and the text not being crisp for coding). I see myself working 4h+ a day on it though, yes, but it’s early to tell.
So I was, for about a month. But I had to give it up due to, mainly, compatibility with MAM requirements for work and app quality. It’s so infuriating to me how good this hardware is yet how equally underinvested it is.
I do enjoy it when I’m in a work type that is well supported.
I would love deeper integration with macOS beyond just screen sharing too. Or alternatively a broader selection of native equivalent apps.
There also seems to be an odd standoff between Apple and the streaming apps, eg no native YouTube, Netflix, Spotify, etc. Not that it impacts work, but it impacts consumer adoption.
I’m very curious how this new era of Apple will respond…
> There also seems to be an odd standoff between Apple and the streaming apps, eg no native YouTube, Netflix, Spotify, etc
Apple made the bed when they openly were hostile to the developers. There's a reason why every platform courts the developers (Remember MS's "developers developers developers").
Apple could get away from being a jerk because the devices were attractive, and the distribution it offered was stellar. But it isnt the device that makes the platform successful, but the developers. And YouTube, Netflix, Spotify and the likes know this.
So when AVP came along, for the first time, the power dynamics shifted. They didnt have to rush to the platform. Why should all these companies bend over backwards to make Apple's device a successful. And if they do the work, they'll be even more beholden to Apple's whims.
So they decided to sit out. And cue the fall out.
AVP hardwar is brilliant, but Apple overplayed its hand.
There’s a native YouTube app. And I don’t find myself missing the others. But besides the background noise from YouTube and Apple Music/Podcasts I don’t really consume media in mine. It’s a work tool.
>> There also seems to be an odd standoff between Apple and the streaming apps, eg no native YouTube, Netflix, Spotify, etc.
> Apple made the bed when they openly were hostile to the developers. There's a reason why every platform courts the developers (Remember MS's "developers developers developers").
This is about relationships between different big corporations who are all platform owners and competitors. Apple was never hostile to regular developers. Apple got from the beginning that app ecosystem and therefore devs is a must.
And in any case, AVP can't compete with iPhone, no one expected it at that price, and so developing apps for AVP would be a waste of time.
I don't think that's the case at least with video streaming. For example, Netflix refusing to integrate with the Apple TV app on any platform because they don't want to compete with other services (because they don't have the content to compete anymore).
> So they decided to sit out. And cue the fall out.
What's the play ? They may get new customers by making an app for the apple pro, they get nothing if they don't.
I don't the economic interest in waiting.
Software development is expensive. Like eye-wateringly expensive. A team of developers, product, designers, testers on a new app costs a big amount of money so its a gamble each time.
Without a large audience, spending money on porting to AVP is either money down the drain or a bet on a large audience coming along soon.
AI is soaking up all kinds of capital, even money that used to go into VR.
The ones that stick tend to solve one narrow problem really well rather than trying to be a platform. I'd look for tools with a clear opinion on workflow.
Is Apple Vision Pro still alive, or is it on life support?
They'd need to bring out a perfected version with technology that does not exist at an impossibly low price point to bring it back to life.
Sad thing is, the current hardware would be perfectly fine if Apple committed themselves on the software side at the level Valve does for the Steam Frame.
Valve hasn't committed to making a mixed reality computing platform, and Apple hasn't come out with a gaming VR headset. Neither company wants to directly compete.
Apparently Apple can't commit to making mixed reality either. If they're going to sell an inside-out headset, they should at least support the software people buy for it.
The "WebXR + iPad apps" library is very clearly a joke to most customers, especially at the price point Apple demands.
As most of us I started using it but gradually stopped. It shoes signs of discontinuation I have seen also ?
I far prefer my Viture XR glasses to the vision pro. Pretty sure this was also the case in 2024 :)
So this is something I've been wondering. How much does the extra ~$3k of functionality on the Vision Pro contribute to pure coding workflows, versus one of the many sub-$1k "virtual TV in a pair of glasses" products?
I like having control over font hinting and aliasing and stuff, so I really prefer the latter.
I found the AVP fun at first, but then after a few days it started to get more and more annoying- whereas the Vitures were a bit annoying at first, but then just became amazing after my eyes/brain got used to them. Almost overnight.
Niri makes a huge difference. As does something like this https://github.com/boomskats/woahland
I was until new corp rules prevented me from using personal devices.
I use them just for playing Doom.
Yes! But not very often
Next thread’s the winner, for sure.
Edit: Being serious…the big players have all began taking AR seriously verrry recently.
Now they need to release hardware.
I already don’t own an AVP and look forward to also not buying the next gen they come out with.
If it wasn’t hampered by iOS and could run more than just the app store then maybe.