Right - like it’s not a lot easier to sign a letter than to give up a 1 million dollar a year comp. It’s just like all of the Facebook warriors or people who say they will leave the country if $x is elected and never make a move.
They were willing to give up a 1 Million dollar a year comp and resigned in mass when the OpenAI non profit board had fired off Sam altman all because they wanted sam altman back in the moment. So there might be a precedent and I actually talked about it in the ask HN with the line "I remember the fact that OpenAI used to be actually non profit and how employees left OpenAI because the non-profit actually fired Sam Altman.".
Damn, you might be right that I missed this one but still. That was a move I had forgotten about but yeah, IIRC with the whole thing it was that Sam Altman would join Microsoft and would take all the people who resign from OpenAI.
Then one thing which I am not understanding is why Meta or Google or Anthropic even wouldn't match the COMP. It's obvious that they can. Meta Poached 100 Million $ engineers and spent 30 Billion $ trying to essentially get a single Guy from ScaleAI (Sort of) to work for him.
I don't understand why a company can't do the same thing now as well and even if not,
I do feel like another point is that these guys would be able to get hired anyway with same salaries or very minor cut or maybe even more. What OpenAI did was not only just not take part in all of this but they first agreed and then backstabbed Anthropic/their own people with this deal and when they got caught, they themselves admit that optics don't look good.
I don't quite understand with ALL of this, how OpenAI researchers in good faith could stay in that. They can easily get another job with similar Income.
Another key point but gpt 5.3 instant dropped, their first example is long term projectiles... Comments on that HN thread there pointed out how with all of the situation in wars and this whole situation. This just feels like putting salt in wound situation to me (personally).
To me, their gpt 5.3 drop looks like it might be smokescreen to quit the talks about the quitGPT or people cancelling chatgpt in large. There were comments talking about this as well on that HN thread.
Facebook absolutely sucks I am not saying that it doesn't. I agree with you on that one.
But what I am saying is that Google might be better in that regards given that they didn't try to pester in and backstab like how OpenAI did. The bar is low but yeah...
That being said, even if these weren't these companies. To tell you the weirdness of the scale we are in here. A company spent 80 million $ on Ai.com and then their budget of where the site was hosted was free cf worker tier...
So a lot of market is essentially just kind of weird even now, This might be the biggest move by any AI company and the best investment to hire OpenAI employees en-scale. Perhaps Anthropic can do that too as I mentioned it earlier.
Imagine a company, which gave a place of employment and used talent of the engineers whose conscience denied OpenAI and the ones who wrote notdivided.org
These companies absolutely exist imo and as such, Money isn't a concern to OpenAI employees and neither should it be.
Atleast that's my opinion. Training and GPU costs for AI companies cost in magnitudes of several millions. To give a few several million dollars to get some good AI researchers doesn't feel so far fetched to me.
As such OpenAI employees shouldn't be worried about money. And they do hold leverage over OpenAI far more.
Atleast that's my opinion but I am curious to hear yours.
Yeah, instead of working at the surveillance machine they can work at the teenage girl misery machine or the war machine. Definitely great options when you have no morals outside of $$$.
> Also, as OP pointed out, they can likely find similar comp elsewhere
Yea, that is what I meant. I don't know what they are gonna do now and that is why I created this ASK HN. I am glad that you read my such a long Ask HN that it went with the HN word limit (4000) and even more haha, means a lot to me :)
1. Most of them probably are shareholders, 2. people "vote with their feet" all the time. You don't think losing large numbers of difficult-to-replace employees would put pressure on leadership? (edited for grammar)
I've seen this a lot. Tech bros start a company that ultimately will want to be purchased by or licensed to a government but they do not screen out employees that would be against this. Almost all tech out of silicon valley is started with the intent of being part of the military industrial complex. That's where most of the money is. Silicon Valley itself was started from WWII money. [1] When it comes time to complete a deal the employees rise up because the government or military wants to use their product.
Because of 4000 word HN limit. I had written some more words, so I am going to be writing that as a comment. I hope the people don't mind. Please read this in continuation
"Although this idea might be naive but I haven't seen discussions about such things atleast on the public face on the internet but this idea did work the last time (for better or for worse)
the public has decided to show agency and decide not to use OpenAI period. And for a growth company like OpenAI, revenue loss is essentially the nail in its coffin. So people are realizing this and taking agency within this and their decisions matter.
But also OpenAI employees decision matters even more so. A 100 people not using OpenAI might not impact them but A 100 employees leaving OpenAI surely would. You guys have a factor of more magnitudes worth of say in all of this and have more power about all this situation.
And as the most famous quote that everyone grew up with, with great power comes great responsibility.
I hope that with this in mind, I hope that OpenAI employees can talk more about what's going on in their heads right now because we really need to have such a discussion and the best time is now.
You would be surprised at what one will compromise on when your yearly comp has two commas in it…
But at least they signed off on a strongly worded letter …
People who think that way probably wouldn't have signed the letter in the first place. Not like anybody was pressuring them (AFAIK).
Also, as OP pointed out, they can likely find similar comp elsewhere
Right - like it’s not a lot easier to sign a letter than to give up a 1 million dollar a year comp. It’s just like all of the Facebook warriors or people who say they will leave the country if $x is elected and never make a move.
They were willing to give up a 1 Million dollar a year comp and resigned in mass when the OpenAI non profit board had fired off Sam altman all because they wanted sam altman back in the moment. So there might be a precedent and I actually talked about it in the ask HN with the line "I remember the fact that OpenAI used to be actually non profit and how employees left OpenAI because the non-profit actually fired Sam Altman.".
They were “resigning” with the understanding that Microsoft was going to hire them and match their pay.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-67484455
Damn, you might be right that I missed this one but still. That was a move I had forgotten about but yeah, IIRC with the whole thing it was that Sam Altman would join Microsoft and would take all the people who resign from OpenAI.
Then one thing which I am not understanding is why Meta or Google or Anthropic even wouldn't match the COMP. It's obvious that they can. Meta Poached 100 Million $ engineers and spent 30 Billion $ trying to essentially get a single Guy from ScaleAI (Sort of) to work for him.
I don't understand why a company can't do the same thing now as well and even if not,
I do feel like another point is that these guys would be able to get hired anyway with same salaries or very minor cut or maybe even more. What OpenAI did was not only just not take part in all of this but they first agreed and then backstabbed Anthropic/their own people with this deal and when they got caught, they themselves admit that optics don't look good.
I don't quite understand with ALL of this, how OpenAI researchers in good faith could stay in that. They can easily get another job with similar Income.
Another key point but gpt 5.3 instant dropped, their first example is long term projectiles... Comments on that HN thread there pointed out how with all of the situation in wars and this whole situation. This just feels like putting salt in wound situation to me (personally).
To me, their gpt 5.3 drop looks like it might be smokescreen to quit the talks about the quitGPT or people cancelling chatgpt in large. There were comments talking about this as well on that HN thread.
So they are concerned with the morality of OpenAIs use of AI and are going to work for Google or Facebook?
Facebook absolutely sucks I am not saying that it doesn't. I agree with you on that one.
But what I am saying is that Google might be better in that regards given that they didn't try to pester in and backstab like how OpenAI did. The bar is low but yeah...
That being said, even if these weren't these companies. To tell you the weirdness of the scale we are in here. A company spent 80 million $ on Ai.com and then their budget of where the site was hosted was free cf worker tier...
So a lot of market is essentially just kind of weird even now, This might be the biggest move by any AI company and the best investment to hire OpenAI employees en-scale. Perhaps Anthropic can do that too as I mentioned it earlier.
Imagine a company, which gave a place of employment and used talent of the engineers whose conscience denied OpenAI and the ones who wrote notdivided.org
These companies absolutely exist imo and as such, Money isn't a concern to OpenAI employees and neither should it be.
Atleast that's my opinion. Training and GPU costs for AI companies cost in magnitudes of several millions. To give a few several million dollars to get some good AI researchers doesn't feel so far fetched to me.
As such OpenAI employees shouldn't be worried about money. And they do hold leverage over OpenAI far more.
Atleast that's my opinion but I am curious to hear yours.
Yeah, instead of working at the surveillance machine they can work at the teenage girl misery machine or the war machine. Definitely great options when you have no morals outside of $$$.
> Also, as OP pointed out, they can likely find similar comp elsewhere
Yea, that is what I meant. I don't know what they are gonna do now and that is why I created this ASK HN. I am glad that you read my such a long Ask HN that it went with the HN word limit (4000) and even more haha, means a lot to me :)
It's always a bit of a laugh when employees confuse themselves with shareholders, and their employer for a democracy.
1. Most of them probably are shareholders, 2. people "vote with their feet" all the time. You don't think losing large numbers of difficult-to-replace employees would put pressure on leadership? (edited for grammar)
Why is that funny to you?
I've seen this a lot. Tech bros start a company that ultimately will want to be purchased by or licensed to a government but they do not screen out employees that would be against this. Almost all tech out of silicon valley is started with the intent of being part of the military industrial complex. That's where most of the money is. Silicon Valley itself was started from WWII money. [1] When it comes time to complete a deal the employees rise up because the government or military wants to use their product.
[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbKxUYl3WSE [video][44m]
Because of 4000 word HN limit. I had written some more words, so I am going to be writing that as a comment. I hope the people don't mind. Please read this in continuation
"Although this idea might be naive but I haven't seen discussions about such things atleast on the public face on the internet but this idea did work the last time (for better or for worse)
the public has decided to show agency and decide not to use OpenAI period. And for a growth company like OpenAI, revenue loss is essentially the nail in its coffin. So people are realizing this and taking agency within this and their decisions matter.
But also OpenAI employees decision matters even more so. A 100 people not using OpenAI might not impact them but A 100 employees leaving OpenAI surely would. You guys have a factor of more magnitudes worth of say in all of this and have more power about all this situation.
And as the most famous quote that everyone grew up with, with great power comes great responsibility.
I hope that with this in mind, I hope that OpenAI employees can talk more about what's going on in their heads right now because we really need to have such a discussion and the best time is now.
Have a nice day to everyone reading this."