In Canada all the police cars seem to have automated license plate readers these days.
This article explains there was a 2016 law where California won't share local police plate reader data with the feds, so they made a deal in 2024 where Caltrans (dept of transportation) will let Border Patrol pay for it themselves on roads near border crossing like San Diego County.
Had an amateur radio friend tell me about a time he found something transmitting interference that looked like a pole mounted transformer but it was upside down and not connected to anything. He reported it to the FCC and it vanished in a couple of days.
Isn't this the expected outcome when someone reports a device that interferes with communications? They find the owner and the device is fixed or removed.
> “If you’re not doing anything illegal, why worry about it?” said long-time Jacumba resident Allen Stanks, 70.
Glad to see they dug out the most intelligent person to react to this information. It's also incredibly funny because the opposite should also apply to the government; if they're not doing anything illegal then they should have no need to hide their local surveillance network inside of abandoned trailers or other items. Just another reason to toss on the pile for dismantling CBP.
I loved Mr. Stanks follow up of "Privacy?! Why, you post your food on Facebook!". Because what I had for supper and where I've travelled during the day are on exactly the same level of privacy and concern. I have to assume that in the reporter's attempt to have a voice from the pro side and the con side, the best they could find was "if you're not doing anything illegal...".
If people don't have anything to hide ask them how their marriage is and when the last time was they met their mistress, since they drive by there way too often for not having one nearby that location. That line of questioning usually shuts people up, replace response with financials/location/calls/etc when needed. (I know it's a reductio ad absurdum)
Let's suppose Mr Stanks is one of those rare but not altogether uncommon birds that strides out every morning, stark naked, to organically water his hydrangeas.
And..?
Mr Stanks curtains isn't the greatest argument or observation here.
I assume every vehicle has been tracked for decades now. Remember when they simplified the design of license plates to make them easier for cameras to read? Why they feel the need to hide it though.
In the UK: "A record for all vehicles passing by a camera is stored, including those for vehicles that are not known to be of interest at the time of the read. At present ANPR cameras nationally, submit on average around 60 million ANPR ‘read’ records to national ANPR systems daily." [1] (ANPR = Automatic Number Plate Recognition)
The data is kept for 12 months. So basically if you get onto the police radar for whatever reason they can roughly see how you used your car, and others they know you had access to, in the last 12 months (just saying, hum, hum).
1) If your car is stolen, suddenly none of this capability exists, or is inaccessible to police for some reason. No one can actually just type in your reg and see where it was last seen, seemingly, even though it would be an easy way to locate criminals. And if you think well, thieves will just change the plates - no, stolen vehicles are frequently recovered on their original plates.
2) I keep saying various FB Police pages posting "we found this car X without MOT or tax, last time it was taxed in 2023!" so like...it's been driving for 3 years without anyone noticing? What are all those ANPR cameras for then??
Regarding your second point, I don't think you'd go scotch free but the police wouldn't bother coming to the registered keeper's address and attempt to seize the car. I believe you'd simply get automatic fines for no MOT or no insurance (plus penalty points).
So that's that as long as you don't tweet tendencious things because then they might send several cars to arrest you /s
I'm sort of curious where the law stands on this (I am not a lawyer).
Since it has a license plate on it, it in theory displays some ownership info. Is that enough for me to say, "it's clearly not mine now"? If it didn't, does that give me any right to take something off a public roadway?
Obviously, I know that the letter of the law, and what actually will be enforced, are two different things. Taking something that belongs to CBP would almost definitely be prosecuted in this case, regardless of whether it's legally fair game to do so.
It appears that I can't direct-link to it, but look up case 19S-CR-00528 on public.courts.in.gov - this was a case in which the Supreme Court of Indiana overturned an earlier ruling that removing a GPS monitoring device from your own car, when you weren't aware it was there, was theft.
I think its the same as stealing a bike or a car parked on the street. I don't know the subtleties but I don't think you can presume something is abandoned merely for being left on the street?
california blocked sharing police ALPR data with the feds. so border patrol built their own network on state highway infrastructure instead. the workaround is always simpler than the law it routes around.
This is perhaps a more common opinion than you think. Making it easy to catch bad guys is enough reason. I don't know how to effectively convince someone that the ease of law enforcement comes at the expense of liberty, which so many of the aforementioned opinion-holders also claim to be concerned about. I feel like it should be self-evident, that law enforcement and liberty are mutually exclusive, and that we have things like warrants to allow that infringement on liberty in very narrow circumstances. Dragnet surveillance is warrant-less evidence gathering.
>Because they're convinced that because they have nothing to hide, the law will never turn against them.
Yeah, this is a tough one to counter for me. Trying to identify a specific thing they do that may become of interest to a specific abuse of law enforcement.
The easy counter-argument to this, which Mr. Stanks alludes to, is that there's a difference between giving everyone data, and giving law enforcement data.
I mean, one thing you can look at is news stories about the police grabbing the wrong person, trying to find someone who's as much like them as possible - but any example can be rationalized away.
It's interesting. No one is a 100% law-abiding citizen. You can see this in traffic, for example, when a driver gets upset about pedestrians ignoring red lights, while they themselves are driving a few miles per hour over the speed limit and have the number right in front of them. The transgressions of others should always be severely punished. One's own transgressions are minor trifles that are not worth mentioning, or small privileges that one naturally claims. And when one is penalized a little for one's own misconduct, e.g., with a fine, one acts as if one were a victim of fascist repression.
It is self-evident, and they are doublethinking. You can test this by telling them that police should be required to wear always-on body cams. See how they react to that.
Just ask him to show you his bank accounts / unrestricted access to phone / camera in bedroom. It is always funny to see these people bend into pretzels trying to justify why you should not see how much money is on their bank accounts while you are just repeating their own mantra that if they did not do anything illegal, why they are worried about it?
The easy counter-argument to this, which Mr. Stanks alludes to, is that there's a difference between giving everyone data, and giving law enforcement data.
That does not look like an abandoned trailer to me.
It’s good to see the Biden administration approved the permits. That should help keep discussions grounded a bit. The story shouldn’t be a political cudgel, since both sides have a hand in it.
In Michigan, if the trailer has plates, after 18 hours it's considered abandoned. No plates, immediately. So don't expect to be able to judge an abandoned trailer by eye.
I’m used to seeing brightly colored police notices on vehicles left unattended. They spell out how much time the owner has to move the vehicle. If the move doesn’t happen in time, the vehicle is subject to impound.
People are being manipulated into outrage for political purposes. Many are unaware that previous administrations ( yes, on both sides ) prioritized deportations. The federal machinery in use has been in place over several presidencies and operated in many of the same ways. When given this information, people make less radical outbursts, which is good.
the both sides does not hold water … imagine if Kamala was elected President and did 0.1% of the shit that was done in the last 14 months - like just imagine if she sent military to places where we have actual crime like Houston TX … the country would be literally burning right now. so “both sides” is very played argument I would stay away from
It absolutely does hold water - I've been sounding the alarm about Flock long before Trump took office. It took years to build out that network, it didn't happen overnight.
I apologize if my comment was not clear - I am not saying that both political parties are not same shit when it comes to surveillance and shit like that. but here on HN in particular, this "both sides" argument is being applied loosely to justify every imaginable thing that is making America into a country our parents have been scaring us off - every day we are becoming more like the countries and systems we have been fighting hard against. the "Obama was deporting..." absolutely cannot compare to "Trump sending military to always Democratic-led cities and in the process murdering in cold blood Americans on the streets of American cities" and yet you'll read over and over comments like OP that go "oh well, it is both sides" - which is why I gave example of Kamala sending US military to Texas (this would be fun, I am guessing some Hollywood liberal writer/director will eventually make (what could be an amazing) movie about this scenario
Per Google: “ The Dallas ICE Field Office is experiencing a sharp increase in enforcement, with over 12,000 arrests between January and October 2025, marking over 100% growth and the second-highest volume nationwide.”
Also per Google: “ Mesa is the only municipality in the state with a contract agreement with ICE. We gladly welcome ICE into Mesa.”
Again, for Bakersfield: “ Based on recent reports, Bakersfield and Kern County are currently major hubs for U.S. immigration enforcement, with high levels of activity from both U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and U.S. Border Patrol. ”
I quit looking after that one.
The ‘murder’ comment is false as well, of course. Hyperbole doesn’t help discussions of this type.
Nobody has been charged with murder. You don’t get to make up your own definition for words, they have a shared meaning. Murder means something, and that guy was not murdered.
You also said "Trump sending military to always Democratic-led cities“ as if he was targeting those cities. You have been shown that Republican led cities have ICE, too. Did you mean that in some other way?
If you always insist you are right, and that society is wrong, it will lead to any number of negative results. ( Among these, your own mental health will decline. )
There are laws and rules around murder. When people carry firearms and fight with government agents, the agents are given wide latitude to protect themselves. This is with good reason.
You can hold your breath, stamp your feet, and insist you are right. You won’t be. Laws and rules matter. Please confine your arguments to the factual, else you’ll gaslight yourself.
Which proves the outrage is about the method of deportation (black-bag Hispanic looking people, tear up their birth certificate in front of them) and not about the number of people deported.
The last article you opined on with this really bizarre line of reasoning was written by a journalist and published in an outlet who have been critiquing all those administrations. You chose to steer the discussion toward political affiliation. So for you, torturing children for 'crimes' of their parents is much less prescient morally than who raises the complaint.
The articles main thrust is that prior administrations gathered up all kinds of immigrants for deportation, not just violent criminals. ( BTW, current deportations include over 10% convicted violent criminals ). What’s the tie to torturing children?
>The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,[a] against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Also:
>No person shall ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.
There’s a difference between happening to be captured on camera if there’s a camera in a public place and having a government agency identify and track you and your vehicle across hundreds of miles of travel.
Funny, you can plainly see them in street view linked from the EFF map...
https://maps.app.goo.gl/bGcDQ8v8YhvN3f1q7
Here is one in a construction barrel
https://maps.app.goo.gl/bakw7KpzRjSuqpwY6
Well, there's a reminder to donate to the EFF again!
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In Canada all the police cars seem to have automated license plate readers these days.
This article explains there was a 2016 law where California won't share local police plate reader data with the feds, so they made a deal in 2024 where Caltrans (dept of transportation) will let Border Patrol pay for it themselves on roads near border crossing like San Diego County.
Is it illegal to put big cardboard boxes weighed down with rocks in front of these cameras? Asking for a friend.
Flock came to my town recently and I keep daydreaming about drones that can spray/drop paint.
There might be people in your town who own all-black clothing and face masks.
I hope to operate one of these networks. Maybe I should apply to Y Combinator. Do they take applications that are too similar to previous applicants?
I've heard those trailers contain 15 lbs of copper wire each.
Scrap metal and sellable parts as well. Most likely a SIM card you can get a bunch of free internet out of too.
It'd be interesting to see what endpoints they submit the data to...
won't they able able to track you down if you start using the SIM though?
They can track the locations where you use that card, and the locations where you use the phone the card was in, before and after the card was in it.
Take this information as you will.
ETA: "use" means "have a battery inserted"
Stick it into a smartphone, duct tape it to an ICE vehicle.
Had an amateur radio friend tell me about a time he found something transmitting interference that looked like a pole mounted transformer but it was upside down and not connected to anything. He reported it to the FCC and it vanished in a couple of days.
Isn't this the expected outcome when someone reports a device that interferes with communications? They find the owner and the device is fixed or removed.
> “If you’re not doing anything illegal, why worry about it?” said long-time Jacumba resident Allen Stanks, 70.
Glad to see they dug out the most intelligent person to react to this information. It's also incredibly funny because the opposite should also apply to the government; if they're not doing anything illegal then they should have no need to hide their local surveillance network inside of abandoned trailers or other items. Just another reason to toss on the pile for dismantling CBP.
I loved Mr. Stanks follow up of "Privacy?! Why, you post your food on Facebook!". Because what I had for supper and where I've travelled during the day are on exactly the same level of privacy and concern. I have to assume that in the reporter's attempt to have a voice from the pro side and the con side, the best they could find was "if you're not doing anything illegal...".
It's the privacy equivalent of "She was dressed skimpy in that part of town"
If people don't have anything to hide ask them how their marriage is and when the last time was they met their mistress, since they drive by there way too often for not having one nearby that location. That line of questioning usually shuts people up, replace response with financials/location/calls/etc when needed. (I know it's a reductio ad absurdum)
that's kinda silly because someone may deduce where you've been from a photo at a restaurant
I swear editors intentionally go with the dumbest takes to get rage engagement.
I don't like it but I can kind of understand hiding it. People change their behavior if it's obvious.
> “If you’re not doing anything illegal, why worry about it?” said long-time Jacumba resident Allen Stanks, 70.
I wonder if Mr Stanks has curtains on his windows… After all, if you’ve got nothing to hide…
Let's suppose Mr Stanks is one of those rare but not altogether uncommon birds that strides out every morning, stark naked, to organically water his hydrangeas.
And..?
Mr Stanks curtains isn't the greatest argument or observation here.
We don't need to cater our argument to outliers
I assume every vehicle has been tracked for decades now. Remember when they simplified the design of license plates to make them easier for cameras to read? Why they feel the need to hide it though.
In the UK: "A record for all vehicles passing by a camera is stored, including those for vehicles that are not known to be of interest at the time of the read. At present ANPR cameras nationally, submit on average around 60 million ANPR ‘read’ records to national ANPR systems daily." [1] (ANPR = Automatic Number Plate Recognition)
The data is kept for 12 months. So basically if you get onto the police radar for whatever reason they can roughly see how you used your car, and others they know you had access to, in the last 12 months (just saying, hum, hum).
[1] https://www.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/rs/road-...
So I'll say two things to that:
1) If your car is stolen, suddenly none of this capability exists, or is inaccessible to police for some reason. No one can actually just type in your reg and see where it was last seen, seemingly, even though it would be an easy way to locate criminals. And if you think well, thieves will just change the plates - no, stolen vehicles are frequently recovered on their original plates.
2) I keep saying various FB Police pages posting "we found this car X without MOT or tax, last time it was taxed in 2023!" so like...it's been driving for 3 years without anyone noticing? What are all those ANPR cameras for then??
This is the police "prioritising".
Regarding your second point, I don't think you'd go scotch free but the police wouldn't bother coming to the registered keeper's address and attempt to seize the car. I believe you'd simply get automatic fines for no MOT or no insurance (plus penalty points).
So that's that as long as you don't tweet tendencious things because then they might send several cars to arrest you /s
Probably to deter vandalism of the kind that a number of other people in this thread are talking about doing.
Free trailer
I'm sort of curious where the law stands on this (I am not a lawyer).
Since it has a license plate on it, it in theory displays some ownership info. Is that enough for me to say, "it's clearly not mine now"? If it didn't, does that give me any right to take something off a public roadway?
Obviously, I know that the letter of the law, and what actually will be enforced, are two different things. Taking something that belongs to CBP would almost definitely be prosecuted in this case, regardless of whether it's legally fair game to do so.
It appears that I can't direct-link to it, but look up case 19S-CR-00528 on public.courts.in.gov - this was a case in which the Supreme Court of Indiana overturned an earlier ruling that removing a GPS monitoring device from your own car, when you weren't aware it was there, was theft.
I think its the same as stealing a bike or a car parked on the street. I don't know the subtleties but I don't think you can presume something is abandoned merely for being left on the street?
Free SIM card, free NUC running the ALPR DSP software, free Victron solar battery charger/power supply equipment…
california blocked sharing police ALPR data with the feds. so border patrol built their own network on state highway infrastructure instead. the workaround is always simpler than the law it routes around.
What are the odds Palantir have something to do with this.
99 point 9 recurring, but that wasn't new information.
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This is perhaps a more common opinion than you think. Making it easy to catch bad guys is enough reason. I don't know how to effectively convince someone that the ease of law enforcement comes at the expense of liberty, which so many of the aforementioned opinion-holders also claim to be concerned about. I feel like it should be self-evident, that law enforcement and liberty are mutually exclusive, and that we have things like warrants to allow that infringement on liberty in very narrow circumstances. Dragnet surveillance is warrant-less evidence gathering.
> This is perhaps a more common opinion than you think.
Oh, I know it's a common opinion. That's why I'm so upset about it.
> the ease of law enforcement comes at the expense of liberty, which so many of the aforementioned opinion-holders also claim to be concerned about.
Because they're convinced that because they have nothing to hide, the law will never turn against them.
>Because they're convinced that because they have nothing to hide, the law will never turn against them.
Yeah, this is a tough one to counter for me. Trying to identify a specific thing they do that may become of interest to a specific abuse of law enforcement.
The Jews in Amsterdam had nothing to hide ... until they did.
Do you give everybody your tax returns? No? Then you have something to hide.
Do you give everybody your phone records? No? Then you have something to hide.
Do you give everybody your web history? No? Then you have something to hide.
etc.
> Do you give everybody
The easy counter-argument to this, which Mr. Stanks alludes to, is that there's a difference between giving everyone data, and giving law enforcement data.
But Jews-in-Amsterdam is a pretty good example.
I mean, one thing you can look at is news stories about the police grabbing the wrong person, trying to find someone who's as much like them as possible - but any example can be rationalized away.
It's interesting. No one is a 100% law-abiding citizen. You can see this in traffic, for example, when a driver gets upset about pedestrians ignoring red lights, while they themselves are driving a few miles per hour over the speed limit and have the number right in front of them. The transgressions of others should always be severely punished. One's own transgressions are minor trifles that are not worth mentioning, or small privileges that one naturally claims. And when one is penalized a little for one's own misconduct, e.g., with a fine, one acts as if one were a victim of fascist repression.
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It is self-evident, and they are doublethinking. You can test this by telling them that police should be required to wear always-on body cams. See how they react to that.
> “Everyone is talking about privacy, OK. Stop putting everything on Facebook. ‘Here’s a picture of my food.’ Who cares?” said Stanks.
Lol, this is just an old guy that wants to say something, _anything_ to the world
An old guy who doesn't understand the difference between the state surveilling everything you do, and you volunteering some photographs to the world.
The answer is always "because law enforcement is usually doing something illegal"
Just ask him to show you his bank accounts / unrestricted access to phone / camera in bedroom. It is always funny to see these people bend into pretzels trying to justify why you should not see how much money is on their bank accounts while you are just repeating their own mantra that if they did not do anything illegal, why they are worried about it?
The easy counter-argument to this, which Mr. Stanks alludes to, is that there's a difference between giving everyone data, and giving law enforcement data.
Yeah ask this guy how he’d feel if a different party were in power and doing this.
An extra-ominous comment with the numbers in your username.
"You're in public space, you can't assume any kind of privacy here. Just don't go out."
That does not look like an abandoned trailer to me.
It’s good to see the Biden administration approved the permits. That should help keep discussions grounded a bit. The story shouldn’t be a political cudgel, since both sides have a hand in it.
In Michigan, if the trailer has plates, after 18 hours it's considered abandoned. No plates, immediately. So don't expect to be able to judge an abandoned trailer by eye.
Well, that’s interesting.
I’m used to seeing brightly colored police notices on vehicles left unattended. They spell out how much time the owner has to move the vehicle. If the move doesn’t happen in time, the vehicle is subject to impound.
A pre-emptive "both-sides"?
No, just a fan of people being informed.
People are being manipulated into outrage for political purposes. Many are unaware that previous administrations ( yes, on both sides ) prioritized deportations. The federal machinery in use has been in place over several presidencies and operated in many of the same ways. When given this information, people make less radical outbursts, which is good.
the both sides does not hold water … imagine if Kamala was elected President and did 0.1% of the shit that was done in the last 14 months - like just imagine if she sent military to places where we have actual crime like Houston TX … the country would be literally burning right now. so “both sides” is very played argument I would stay away from
It absolutely does hold water - I've been sounding the alarm about Flock long before Trump took office. It took years to build out that network, it didn't happen overnight.
I apologize if my comment was not clear - I am not saying that both political parties are not same shit when it comes to surveillance and shit like that. but here on HN in particular, this "both sides" argument is being applied loosely to justify every imaginable thing that is making America into a country our parents have been scaring us off - every day we are becoming more like the countries and systems we have been fighting hard against. the "Obama was deporting..." absolutely cannot compare to "Trump sending military to always Democratic-led cities and in the process murdering in cold blood Americans on the streets of American cities" and yet you'll read over and over comments like OP that go "oh well, it is both sides" - which is why I gave example of Kamala sending US military to Texas (this would be fun, I am guessing some Hollywood liberal writer/director will eventually make (what could be an amazing) movie about this scenario
That’s just not grounded.
ICE absolutely goes to Republicans led cities.
Per Google: “ The Dallas ICE Field Office is experiencing a sharp increase in enforcement, with over 12,000 arrests between January and October 2025, marking over 100% growth and the second-highest volume nationwide.”
Also per Google: “ Mesa is the only municipality in the state with a contract agreement with ICE. We gladly welcome ICE into Mesa.”
Again, for Bakersfield: “ Based on recent reports, Bakersfield and Kern County are currently major hubs for U.S. immigration enforcement, with high levels of activity from both U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and U.S. Border Patrol. ”
I quit looking after that one.
The ‘murder’ comment is false as well, of course. Hyperbole doesn’t help discussions of this type.
Can you somehow justify what you wrote?
didn’t think I have to but here it is:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/man-shot-and-killed-by-f...
and comparing minnesota etc to Dallas and Mesa is… something else but here we are…
You said ‘murder’, not ‘lawfully killed’.
Nobody has been charged with murder. You don’t get to make up your own definition for words, they have a shared meaning. Murder means something, and that guy was not murdered.
You also said "Trump sending military to always Democratic-led cities“ as if he was targeting those cities. You have been shown that Republican led cities have ICE, too. Did you mean that in some other way?
> Nobody has been charged with murder
thats exactly the Gestapo shit we are dealing with. It was in fact a murder, the fact that no one was charged is what is becoming of our country
That’s a poor way to look at things.
If you always insist you are right, and that society is wrong, it will lead to any number of negative results. ( Among these, your own mental health will decline. )
There are laws and rules around murder. When people carry firearms and fight with government agents, the agents are given wide latitude to protect themselves. This is with good reason.
You can hold your breath, stamp your feet, and insist you are right. You won’t be. Laws and rules matter. Please confine your arguments to the factual, else you’ll gaslight yourself.
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Different bubbles for different folks, I guess. It was a big thing in 2024 that Biden deported more than Trump.
Which proves the outrage is about the method of deportation (black-bag Hispanic looking people, tear up their birth certificate in front of them) and not about the number of people deported.
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The last article you opined on with this really bizarre line of reasoning was written by a journalist and published in an outlet who have been critiquing all those administrations. You chose to steer the discussion toward political affiliation. So for you, torturing children for 'crimes' of their parents is much less prescient morally than who raises the complaint.
I don’t understand your point.
The articles main thrust is that prior administrations gathered up all kinds of immigrants for deportation, not just violent criminals. ( BTW, current deportations include over 10% convicted violent criminals ). What’s the tie to torturing children?
There's no expectation of privacy in public areas. That's been the law of the land now for a long time.
>The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,[a] against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Also:
>No person shall ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.
Have been the law for a long time too and yet…
There’s a difference between happening to be captured on camera if there’s a camera in a public place and having a government agency identify and track you and your vehicle across hundreds of miles of travel.